Comics and Manga Day 2007, and a Question

18 Comments

1. I think you may have a good point here, Bhex. When you state that spec. fic. has been present for a long time, but in comics form, that makes it older indeed. I humbly admit I don’t know much about comics (I’m more into prose), though many of those I’ve met this past year have been trying to educate me (I think I still have a failing grade).

2. Other people have said that Philippine spec fic has been around for a long time… including Dean, IIRC. He mentioned the stories of Nick Joaquin, which fall under the fairly recently identified subgenre of magic realism…

   But I don’t think I’ve heard of anyone mentioning komiks when they talk about spec fic history, although I’ve definitely heard people say that comic books qualify as literature… and I’m wondering if that’s really how it’s supposed to be?

   I’m afraid I’m not versed in literary or komiks history either XD; My father used to write for komiks though, and I avidly followed various komiks titles when I was little – Bata Batuta, Funny Komiks, Nightmare Komiks and Fantasy Komiks… I was just never really aware of the long and venerable history behind all of it.

   I’m still learning more about komiks, too :)

3. You can include komiks as well although I personally prefer to stick to prose (although it is also at the periphery of my vision and will bring it up when necessary). Gerry certainly would be knowledgeable when it comes to the history of komiks. Some of the Lit Critters, on the other hand, have been working on local comics for quite some time so some of the discussions on local comics is old news to me. But it’s your blog so it’s up to you. =)

4. On a side note, my problem with komiks is that for the most part, people know it for the superhero genre. Of course two other genres our local komiks has made a name for itself is horror and romance but let’s not discount the adaptations of novels like Noli me Tangere, Ibong Adarna, and Florante at Laura. Towards the 90’s, there was even a Street Fighter homage/derivative entitled Kick Fighter. And among religious folk there was Gospy (a ghost) comics that taught Catholic virtues.

5. hi there!
   thanks for plugging the comics and manga day!!

   see you this saturday!

6. I think it’s “young” in the sense that the idea of it being a separate genre to be classified and studied and dissected is recent. Before, especially in komiks, it just used to be komiks. The main classifications being pambata and pangmatanda or wakasan and serialized. People didn’t care if it was fantasy or superhero or straight drama — they were all just komiks. It’s only now that a group of people specifically identify themselves as SpecFic.

   Nick Joaquin’s “tropical baroque” stuff was just stories with supernatural elements, not a part of a “movement” (artificial or not) that sought to explore certain ideas.

   Maybe Fil Spec Fic is “young” because the academic studies and nerdy conventions have been done only recent. Science fiction in the US has been around since Poe but only took off with the pulp magazines and conventions.

7. @azrael – you’re welcome! good luck with the event :)

   @charles – truth be told, i’m reluctant to jump into comics discussions. from time to time i read up on them, but there have been a lot of things discussed! and i’m not part of any writing comm, so it’s hard to be up to date…

   what i’m asking is not technically a komiks issue, i think, but has it already been discussed? if we look at countries with “older” literary traditions, we’ll notice that they don’t include komiks in their spec fic discussions either – it’s really a completely different art form. but what about countries where komiks historically enjoyed a massive influence, like they did in the philippines?

   i mean even komiks that focus on superheroes, the fantastic or the supernatural are speculative, aren’t they?

   @missingpoints – that was exactly what i was thinking of: the movement is young, but the stories are not. so when people say “Philippine spec fic,” i guess they don’t mean to include komiks or older works (those of nick joaquin, et al) at all, but in fact refer to the recent wave of fiction? or, rather, to the recent notion that some fiction may actually fall under the “speculative” label?

   also, forgive the ignorance, please – is there a “natural” literary movement?

8. I think it all boils down to what you want to include. I mean for me, comics is certainly different from prose just as prose is different from poetry or film. They may share the same genre but they’re using different techniques and methods. I mean if we strictly limit it to “spec fic”, why not include TV/film as well (and who can forget Captain Barbel and Panday and Darna and Zuma?). Or is your qualifier “works in print”?

   As for comics and speculative fiction, they have usually been touted in the genre. I mean one comparison is is how most of Marvel’s superheroes are science-based, while DC Comics shifted from its magic-based superheroes in the Golden Age to science-based superheroes in the Silver Age. And many draw comparisons to E.E. Docsmith’s Lensman and the Green Lantern Corps. Author Alfred Bester is someone who made a name for himself both via his comics work and his fiction (and the same goes for Neil Gaiman).

   In the Year’s Best Fantasy and Horror, there are usually “a year in review” type of essays and it recently includes an essay on anime and manga. Having said that, Year’s Best Fantasy and Horror doesn’t publish comics, just short stories and sometimes poems.

9. why don’t we include film/tv as well? although yeah, i was thinking that since komiks are in print, and they are classified as “literature,” they’d be more easily classifiable as fiction. although since film/tv uses scripts, if we actually had access to the raw form of those scripts, they could be literature too.

   and that’s just it – countries with “older” and more established literary traditions (i.e. english, american) stick strictly to prose when they discuss spec fic. should it still apply to us (well, many of our spec fictionists ARE more inspired by anglo-american text, than by komiks) or is failing to acknowledge previous spec fic work that does NOT take the form of prose actually creating a huge knowledge gap?

10. For me, being a comic guy too, there is a division and its very simple: prose and comics are not the same. Comics are a different medium with its own wonderful history, conventions, and “reading” (image and words together in some form of sequential paneling). Comics are not strictly prose. When I talk about spec fic, I am referring to prose works excusively. This is NOT to say that I don’t consider some comics or films or theatre or poetry or sculpture or dance or performance art spec fic – but I limit my focus to prose. My reason is because my interest, like other editors of spec fic anthos in the world (Japanese spec fic, Caribbean spec fic, Canadian spec fic, Russian spec fic, etc), is in short fiction specifically (I wish someone would put together an antho of filipino spec fic poetry – which is a whole different thing in itself, which I do not have the tools to select or critique, not being a poet myself and not having the proper reading/writing background.) For that matter, to digress a bit backwards into the previous discussions, I think you, Bhex, or someone else should put together an antho of Filipino language spec fic.

    So am I dissing comics by excluding them?

    Nope. I am an avid supporter of comics (but nowhere near Gerry’s advocacy). I love them and believe in their power to entertain and educate, whether or not their content is considered speculative or not. I’ve worked with comics to see my agenda through – Vin Simbulan and I put together 2 anthos, Siglo: Freedom and Siglo: Passion, gathering together komikeros (Gerry Alanguilan, Lan Medina, Reno Maniquis, Arnold Arre, Carlo Vergara, and more) as well as comics writers and writers who are not de facto comics writers (Vince Groyon, Paolo Manalo, Luis Katigbak and others). We also helped put together Project: Hero, which is thematic opposite of Siglo – where we sought ot rekindle what made us love comics in the first place. Though my focus has shifted to prose, I still love comics and keep myself somewhat in the loop (but not to the same degree as before, because project-wise, I can only do so much before my head explodes). ;)

11. In my opinion, whether you want to include other mediums into spec fic is up to you. For example, if I do book reviews, no one will ask me why I don’t do movie reviews, although if I do choose to do both (or use both as examples in an essay), no one will exactly complain. The important thing, I think, is that people who engage in a discussion operate on the same definition (whether it’s limited to one medium or not).

    Of course I’d also like to clarify that just because a “text” is in print does not mean it’s equal. I mean one can’t use the same measuring stick to judge poetry, prose, a script, etc. Much like Dean, for me comics does not equal prose, although both mediums have their own merits and limitations.

    Is there a huge knowledge gap? I’d like to think there’s a gap although how huge it is, I can’t really say. On the other hand however, saying we have 100 spec fic work (assuming you’re including other mediums) does not equal saying we have 100 spec fic short stories. For all I know, that might be 99 comics or TV shows and 1 short story. And 1 short story isn’t an entire industry. So that’s the peril you cross when you don’t draw distinctions. And as far comics, right now it has its own defenders, each one representing their various factions. Do they need all the help they can get? Of course. But there’s also limits on what a single person can cover. So if you do want to tackle the entire spec fic industry (instead of just prose), feel free to do so. But there’s also the fact that for every thing you include, there’s something you’re excluding (film, music, poetry, plays, etc.). Personally I’d focus on the number of projects where I can contribute the most. If you think you can handle both prose and comics, then go for it!

12. If speculative fiction includes fantasy and fiction includes other types of literary genres, then Philippine speculative fiction is centuries old and is not based solely on komiks. Other examples include Philippine epics, Philippine folk literature in general, forms like the korido, and the body of pre-Hispanic Philippine myths.

    For a related point, read the most recent post in my web log.

13. @bhex: by “artificial” I mean people/writers getting together and saying “we’re SpecFic / Emo Romance / PinoyGoth writers” and consciously creating works that fit their definition of their genre. Much like the cyberpunk SF writers of the 80s who worshiped JG Ballard and are identified as a community of sorts. “Natural” just means writing what you want and being classified later (like Nick Joaquin).

    These are personal definitions BTW.

    Re: TV. If only the writers were more serious with their SFF. I posted in my old blog that I’d rather see Tobie’s “Diliman” or Budjette’s “Trese” made into TV shows than have these “Shaider” rip-offs on Channel 7. These TV writers are in it just because fantasy is the “cool” thing nowadays on local TV, not because they really like fantasy / SF. I probably have more SFF books on my PDA than they’ve read their entire lives.

14. @dean – Thank you for the input! It’s always good to hear from someone who’s been active in the komiks industry as well.

    […] I think you, Bhex, or someone else should put together an antho of Filipino language spec fic.

    This November, I’m off for a 2-month vacation, during which I intend to think a lot of things through. I’ll be looking more into the possibility of something like this. In the meantime, if anyone wants to pick up on the project, of course, they are very welcome to it :)

15. @charles – Thanks, maybe it really does depend on the person. I’m not out to write a book about it :P but I’m inclined to think it’s vital to pay some attention to previous spec fic work that wasn’t done in prose.

16. @missingpoints – Thanks for the elaboration. I used to think the cyberpunk pundits of the 80s were always more in tune with Gibson than with Ballard, though after reading your comment I realized Ballard’s surrealism does seem like a precursor to the more solid definitions of cyberpunk that we have today… i should definitely read up on this more.

    re: TV: i continue to wish our network bigwigs would adventure more and host more shows from independent writers, even on a small budget. but well, would we rather see our indie writers’ work butchered than see them unproduced? a compromise has to be struck somewhere, and i’m really not sure our media movers and shakers are ready for it yet.

17. @anton – I’m actually in a bind over whether or not to include oral literature in our discussion per se, as we don’t have anything except our forebears’ say-so as documentation. I agree that we have a very rich folkloric oral tradition, and yes, i agree we should include them in our elaborations of spec fic history. but apart from the elucidations of academics like damiana eugenio, maximo ramos and even ambeth ocampo, i’m afraid our documentation of this part of our literature is rather weak.

18. I guess a lot (but not all) of komiks could be included, when we’re talking about themes and topics, a lot of them were quite spec. And although they might be of a different medium, I’m thinking the, ummm, viewpoints, the stories themselves are quite alike. There’s imagining what the future might be like, or fantastic creatures– sf, fantasy and horror.

Comments are closed.